Give a warm welcome to Chris Eggertsen, one of Bloody Disgusting's new local staffers who will be helping out on a regular basis. This past week we sent him to sit down with the filmmakers and cast of Lionsgate's forthcoming Saw VI to get a fresh take of the flick arriving in theaters next Friday. Read on for his lengthy article entitled "Trilogy My Ass."
"In all honesty, the original writers felt that [the Saw series] was a trilogy. You know, they were all thinking they were Peter Jackson and it was a trilogy and I was like, 'trilogy my ass'. So uh, we wanted to keep going because there were still more stories to tell." – Mark Burg, producer of all six Saw movies and co-founder of Twisted Pictures, during a Saw VI round-table discussion at Universal Studios Hollywood.
In other words, you can most likely count on there being a Saw 15 if the series continues attracting enough fans to justify the expense. But you know, maybe James Wan and Leigh Wannell, the original writers Burg is talking about, were on to something there. Do we really need this many Saw films? I couldn’t help but chuckle to myself a couple of times during the press round table I attended for Saw VI on an atypically rainy L.A. day, when the absurdity of the number attached to the end of the title would strike me, in the midst of all the feigned interest and softball questions being bandied about. And then I started thinking to myself: what if I were in Mr. Burg’s position? Would I continue on with the franchise well past the point of ridiculousness if the movies continued raking in the dough?
Well, I don’t know. I’m not a Hollywood producer and I have no ambitions of being one, for the very reason that money tends to act as a steamrolling influence over any sense of artistic necessity. Looked at that way, you can’t really blame Mr. Burg for wanting to go further with the series after the death of Jigsaw in the third film; after all, Saw III had just grossed over $164 million worldwide, and fans seemed to be clamoring for more. He’s just part of the Hollywood machine, not to mention a very successful one. But while the success of the franchise has been astronomical by anyone’s calculation, the Saw films appeared to be running out of steam a bit when the last entry, Saw V, not only suffered from diminished ticket sales (it grossed about $30 million less on the domestic front than the series-high Saw II) but also disappointed many hard-core fans of the series, who seemed in general agreement that the quality of the films had been consistently dipping since the first movie.
"You know, I ain’t gonna lie to you, I was kind of disappointed", said Burg, in response to a question about the negative fan reaction to Saw V during the round-table discussion at Universal Studios Hollywood. "I personally liked Saw V. I thought it was a really good movie, and the fans really did like it. But you wanna know something? The easy answer is to say I hired David Hackl to direct Saw VII, so ask me again what you think I thought of Saw V. You know, I hired the director again. So, I personally liked the movie and thought he did a very good job and he’s very, very visual, and I think he’s gonna do a great job with Saw VII in 3-D."
The "Saw V-was-underrated-and-misunderstood" sentiment was also echoed by the engagingly affable and super-thoughtful actor Tobin Bell, who reprises his now exclusively flashback-oriented role as Jigsaw (aka Jonathan Kramer) in the new film.
"I liked Saw V. I thought it was a little easier to relax into, I thought that the pacing was tight, I loved the end scene", Bell said. "Hackl is sort of a painter, he’s a scenic designer, and so I think it was a reflection of who he is…I thought the pacing of it, to me, was more classic, more of a grown-up kind of way of approaching [the same material] and getting the same effect."
On Burg’s part, re-hiring Hackl is a somewhat risky move, for sure, given that fans aren’t exactly screaming for his return. That being said, Saw V was far from a franchise-killing disaster. After all, it cost only a little under $11 million to make, and it grossed over $113 million worldwide. At the end of the day, that’s the beauty of the Saw franchise for those with a stake in it – there’s a lot of room for error. In other words, given their miniscule (for Hollywood) budgets, it’d have to be a pretty steep drop in ticket sales for these suckers to lose their commercial cache.
So what can we expect from this new entry? A continuation of the downward trend, or a fresh new direction? Well, it’s hard to say. While all involved who’ve actually seen the film (Costas Mandylor, who has played detective-turned-Jigsaw protégé Hoffman in the last four movies, even admitted to not having yet watched the finished product) swore up and down at the round table that this is indeed the best entry in the series since the first, it’s hard not to be skeptical. After all, where else exactly is there for the Saw movies to go? Isn’t it time just to put the thing to bed and move on? The seemingly high level of audience fatigue after the last installment seems to be pointing in that direction.
"When we started on Saw VI, our biggest goal was to create that ‘A’ story that’s really interesting and engaging and emotional, and so that’s sort of where we started", says Patrick Melton, who has written the screenplay for Saws IV-VI with writing partner Marcus Dunstan, of the need to shake up the series. "And at the end of the day, having seen Saw VI three times now, it really is a good movie because we spent that time with that lead character."
First-time director Kevin Greutert, who served as editor on the first five films, has to be feeling the pressure after the tepid fan reaction to the last movie. Greutert is a bookish, diminutive man who doesn’t immediately seem like someone who would be capable of handling the rigorous demands of a high-pressure directing gig. For one thing, he’s soft-spoken and tidy, without any of that unbridled, disheveled energy so typical of film directors (or at least our idea of them). But he also possesses a refreshingly unaffected quality that certainly makes you want to believe that he has succeeded in taking the stale Saw formula in an exciting new direction.
"Because I spent so much time in the cutting room with the previous directors, we talked about all this stuff up and down", said Greutert in response to a question about the value of working with all of the directors on the past five movies. "So I had a huge advantage making this film that Darren and James and David didn’t have."
Greutert also seemed to have taken the complaints of fans to heart in crafting this new installment.
"Some people argued that Saw IV was too complex, and Saw V wasn’t complex enough, and we paid a lot of attention to stuff like that", said Greutert. "And I think we were able to find a good blend."
"[Kevin Greutert] I think wanted to establish himself and do something that was a little bit different aesthetically, while looking like a Saw film but having his own sort of stamp on it", said Melton. "And a lot of that is the color scheme. There is a big difference between [the color schemes] of Saws I-IV, and even V. Especially Saw VI is more of a throwback I think to the first film and a lot of that had to do with Marcus’ and [Kevin’s] love for the Giallo films, the Dario Argento Italian films. So it has a little more color in it."
Ok, so all of this is starting to sound great. A Saw film with the color palette of a Dario Argento movie? I’m in! (Of course, let’s hope that doesn’t include the narrative incoherence of an Argento movie). More than that, it all sounds pretty believable, while still keeping our expectations in check. I mean, it’s not like any of them are promising that Saw VI is going to be better than the first film or anything, right? Oh I’m sorry, what was that, Marc Burg?
"If you ask myself or my partner Oren Koules, we think Saw VI probably is the best of the Saw films to date. Emotionally, it rings truer than any of the other movies, the performances are great, and the style that Kevin brought as a director from his editing…keeps the story really moving", said Burg.
Listen, maybe he’s right and this new installment is actually going to be some sort of Saw masterpiece. More likely, it’s just empty hyperbole in hopes of drumming up ticket sales. (Shocking, I know!) Of course, if that’s the case is it fair to dangle these sorts of raised expectations in front of the fans of a franchise with such a rabid following? Couldn’t he have just said something along the lines of: Dude, it’s better than Saw V? Oh but wait, he liked that one.
To be fair, the new installment, based on the TV and theatrical spots alone, seems at the very least to have been taken in a more topical direction. In one extended trailer that comes off almost unintentionally funny, you can actually hear the following line, spoken in that spooky, gravelly Jigsaw voice made so iconic by actor Tobin Bell: "Healthcare decisions should be made by doctors and their patients, not by the insurance companies." Wait, so does that mean Barack Obama will be next in line to carry on Jigsaw’s legacy?
But I kid. I’m not the biggest Saw fan (in all honesty I’m not much of one at all), but even I found the spots, with the revolving merry-go-round set piece and unwilling participants arguing for the value of their lives over the other characters (Woman: "I’m pregnant, I’m pregnant!" Man: "No she’s not, she’s lying, she’s fucking lying!") pretty intriguing. So there is reason to hope, if not that it will be the best of the series so far (which would be a minor miracle in itself given that the very freshness of the first film is an impossible quality to duplicate) but that it will at least momentarily stall the franchise from circling down the proverbial drain.
"He’s great. He’s very specific", said Mandylor of first-time director Greutert. "He knows every nook and cranny, every frame. It was just easy to trust him. And he’s got a great sense of humor." Key phrase in that last line: sense of humor. At least in the spots mentioned above, the series seems to possibly be developing a sense of humor of its own, after the dreary slog of the last five films. Hopefully that carries over into the rest of the movie, which is sorely in need of a little light-heartedness. But what else is potentially different about this one that will entice the movie-goers who abandoned the franchise in the last couple of installments to come back?
"The main storyline is very plausible, because it relates to the real world and how difficult it is for people, and it has to do with medicine and being taken care of", says Mandylor. "That’s what I liked. I mean, I love everything else about it, but it’s just cool to have a story that makes sense, that people can relate to."
Ok, fine. I have to admit that by the end of the round-table, my curiosity had officially been aroused, and it wasn’t just on account of my massive caffeine high. Maybe it was just all the dizzying Hollywood spin finally getting to me (despite the sturdy construction of my best defenses going in), but it at least seems as if they tried to do something a little different with this one. So what can we expect from Saw VII (smartly being filmed in 3-D), the script of which is already being worked on by Melton and Dunstan?
"[Saw VII will answer] the question of why we’re doing [it] in 3-D, it answers it right away, and it answers loud," said Melton to much laughter. Other than that, all involved were understandably and typically unforthcoming on any further details regarding plot specifics or returning characters. However, it does sound like Tobin Bell will be returning for the next installment. Asked about the prospect of being filmed in 3-D, Bell had this to say:
"Am I looking forward to it? No. It’ll just be one further thing to think about. I’m gonna be doing the same thing I’ve always been doing. So hopefully they’ll have lots of good technical people around to guide us."
Bell’s obvious affection for the franchise came through loud and clear in my interactions with him, not surprising given it’s been the biggest boon of his career so far. So how does he feel about one day directing an entry himself?
"They asked me about that, I’m not quite sure how sincerely. But [it seemed] like way too much work", said Bell. "When [directors] get a break [on set], that’s the time for everybody to descend on them, and say ‘oh, I’m glad you’re free for a moment because we’ve got a major problem in costume’, you know, and so it’s – I appreciate my downtime. (Thoughtful pause) I’m being a little tongue in cheek about that, because Costas knows the truth, the truth is I really do want to direct."
"I’ll be honest with you, you’d be a good director for sure", Costas replied in a genuine tone of voice.
"I’m just waiting for them to come to me again", responded Bell, half-jokingly.
In truth, if the franchise keeps going the way it’s going – churning out sequel after sequel, year after year – he’ll very likely get his chance.
HA, First comment. i agree. Even though the SAW movies are getting kinda ridiculous. I still like to watch them for the traps and cool gore scenes. However, when is it going to end. Part of me hopes the end is near and the other part hopes it will never.
Chris, you are completely wrong when you say that "the fans agree the quality has dropped since the first one." Who the hell do you think you are, thinking that you speak for everyone? That's just YOUR opinion that the series has been declining since the first one. You come off very arrogant by saying that. I'm a Saw fan and I thought Saw III was the best in the series; marginally better than the original. It's wonderfully executed, very colorful, and has amazing suspense. Not to mention it's the only one in the series that's a true character study inside and out.
I still love the saw series. I always look forward to Halloween so I can see a new entry. I guess I'm just one of the few that is still entertained by them. While I hated 4 for some reason, 5 is definitely up there for me. I thought it was one of the stronger films in the series, especially as far as traps. But I really hope this next film has answers. 5 answered nothing and didnt really connect past events to the new film (which I really liked). Anyway, still excited, and I have still avoided all trailers, TV spots, and spoilers. I hope this really does rock!
Well, if so many of you are so against more Saw films then stop going to see it. The article clearly states that as long as there's money to be made they'll keep making new Saw films.
Nice first article Mr. Eggertsen. I personally agree that the first Saw was the best (it's an entirely different beast than the sequels). Your article was an entertaing read; I look forward to seeing more of your work.
hi Chris! great interview (even though i'm not really a SAW fan so much these days! LOL. and i am DEFINITELY one of the former fans who think the movies have sucked since the 3rd movie!)! it IS weird hearing Greutert defending SAW V. IT WAS AWFUL!! that's why SO many of us hated it. it's one of THE worst movies i've seen.
Saw 1 through 3 were awesome, 4 & 5 what garbage, and I cant see this series getting any better even with the next one coming out this month. They used up all the best trap ideas after 3, and all this flashback crap was boring.
WOOOOOOO! SAW IS AMAZING!! and spydr36 saw 1 2 and 3 are amazing but that doesnt mean u just say they are garbage....theyre actually fucking amazing like the rest
I enjoyed 1,3,4 and hated 5. In my opinion, the reason 1,3 and 4 were successful was becase they weren't a "group" thing, as opposed to 2 and 5. I think having the victims in groups takes away the suspense a great deal which makes me suspicious of 6 being succesful. I hope I'm proven wrong thing time and I certainly hope they were able to come up with interesting traps which they kinda run out of with 4 and 5.
Meh, As everyone have said and will always say, 1,2, & 3 were great. 4 was somewhat good, 5 was the same old same old, but not bad. Hopefully Saw VI is good.
Hands down SAW III was the best!!! I enjoyed all the other SAW movies, but SAW III is still on another level! The performances by Tobin, Shawnee, and the victims caught in the game was outstanding! Having said that, as a fan I still enjoy the other movies...BUT..I hope SAW VI will make me appreciate SAW V more. The biggest issue with SAW V was the whole "group" thing. These people in SAW V were just randomly thrusted upon us in a trap that didn't seem to connect with the previous 4 films. The victims in SAW V were whiny and just annoying. I didn't feel sorry for them at all. I didn't care if they died or made it. The only thing that was intriguing was watching the cat and mouse game between Detective Strahm and Hoffman and Jill Tuck with her small side plot of "The Box". So I hope SAW VI will explain why and how the victims from SAW V connect to Jigsaw's ultimate plan.
As I've stated before, I still love the Saw films. They are the horror gems to be looked back upon as the most iconic horror of the 2000s. I love Saw I-III, III being my personal favorite. Saw IV is my LEAST favorite film in the franchise so far, but I don't hate it completely. Saw V was definitely in an improvement, and I actually very much enjoyed the fifth installment.
good article. actually read the whole thing! I wonder if this is all a circle jerk kinda thing though...they sound way too overly confident about the film, that usually spells trouble. and i dont know why eveyrone hates saw 5. Saw 4 was god awful...5 was definately a step up.
PERSONALLY I THINK SAW ONE SUCKED THE MOST I WENT AND SAW SAW 2 IN THE HOPES THAT IT WOULD MAKE UP FOR ONE AND IT DID EVERY ONE AFTER THAT WAS GREAT SO WITH THEM SAYING THEY ARE GOING BACK TO SAW IN SAW6 I THINK IT'S GOING TO SUCK I AM GOING INTO THIS WITH LOWER HOPES OF IT BEING GOOD THE 2-5
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In other words, you can most likely count on there being a Saw 15 if the series continues attracting enough fans to justify the expense. But you know, maybe James Wan and Leigh Wannell, the original writers Burg is talking about, were on to something there. Do we really need this many Saw films? I couldn’t help but chuckle to myself a couple of times during the press round table I attended for Saw VI on an atypically rainy L.A. day, when the absurdity of the number attached to the end of the title would strike me, in the midst of all the feigned interest and softball questions being bandied about. And then I started thinking to myself: what if I were in Mr. Burg’s position? Would I continue on with the franchise well past the point of ridiculousness if the movies continued raking in the dough? 
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