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Old 02-01-2013, 04:47 PM   #241
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The INT's and sacks do back up him being a Hall Of Famer. Find the guys with more sacks or INT's playing as an inside linebacker that got snubbed; or with more All Pro nominations which are given based who was the very best each given season unlike the Pro Bowl popularity contest bullshit.

Thomas- 20.5 sacks, 17 INT
Mills- 20.5 sacks, 11 INT
Lewis- 52.5 sacks, 14 INT
Norton- 12.5 sacks, 6 INT
Edwards- 23.5 sacks, 28 INT
I see your point but look at London Fletcher only 3 pro-bowl nods and not a single all-pro when they have similar total stats or give London a couple more years and will be even closer. If you break down Ray's all-pro years 1999,2000,2001.2003 totally earned!

2004,2008,2009 definitely not earned in my opinion stat wise.

I guess the main point I have to make is Ray got where he is from being a loud mouth braggert but yes some of his years were amazing but in a career with that many games injured/time off and with that good of a defense behind him I don't think he deserves to be in the hall but he will be of course.

Ed Reed
Terrell Suggs
Peter Boulware
Haloti Ngata
Chris McAlister
Rod Woodson
Adalius Thomas
Sam Adams
Michael McCrary
Brendon Ayanbadejo
Bart Scott
Bennie Thompson
Eric Turner

All ravens on defense that were in at least one pro-bowl when Ray has been on the team.
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Old 02-01-2013, 05:07 PM   #242
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Hell, maybe LT didn't deserve to be in the Hall Of Fame then. I mean the Giants other linebackers were only Hall Of Famer Harry Carson and All-Decade Carlton Banks not to mention Leonard Marshall; All Pro defensive end in '85 and '86 when Taylor had a career-best 20.5 sacks.

Furthermore, six guys whose careers overlapped LT finished with more career sacks than him. He's only ranked 9th in career sacks now. Can we retroactively take this overrated deviant crackheaded bum out of the Hall Of Fame please?
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:28 PM   #243
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Hell, maybe LT didn't deserve to be in the Hall Of Fame then. I mean the Giants other linebackers were only Hall Of Famer Harry Carson and All-Decade Carlton Banks not to mention Leonard Marshall; All Pro defensive end in '85 and '86 when Taylor had a career-best 20.5 sacks.

Furthermore, six guys whose careers overlapped LT finished with more career sacks than him. He's only ranked 9th in career sacks now. Can we retroactively take this overrated deviant crackheaded bum out of the Hall Of Fame please?
He is definitely a deviant crackhead but Lawrence came onto the scene like no other OLB did and he really did change the game when it came to getting to the quaterback from the outside.
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:32 AM   #244
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He is definitely a deviant crackhead but Lawrence came onto the scene like no other OLB did and he really did change the game when it came to getting to the quaterback from the outside.
That was purely sarcasm on my part. I find it's much more fun when I don't use some cheeky sarcasm font or emoticons to tip anybody off.

Of course, LT was a Hall Of Famer. My point was how nobody uses that kind of cop-out to try to keep any defender out of the Hall; how good their supporting cast was. It's cut and dry who is an all-time great and who isn't at a position like MLB. Supporting cast shit really only matters if you're talking about QB's.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:06 AM   #245
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That was purely sarcasm on my part. I find it's much more fun when I don't use some cheeky sarcasm font or emoticons to tip anybody off.

Of course, LT was a Hall Of Famer. My point was how nobody uses that kind of cop-out to try to keep any defender out of the Hall; how good their supporting cast was. It's cut and dry who is an all-time great and who isn't at a position like MLB. Supporting cast shit really only matters if you're talking about QB's.
I agree it's definitely lengths and bounds bigger when it comes to the QB but I still don't think Ray deserves to be in the hall

But if anyone thinks he does they as you have clearly made it have a right to say so and make a good case for him.

Michael Irvin is in the hall which I really don't believe he deserved to be in either.
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:17 PM   #246
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I agree it's definitely lengths and bounds bigger when it comes to the QB but I still don't think Ray deserves to be in the hall

But if anyone thinks he does they as you have clearly made it have a right to say so and make a good case for him.

Michael Irvin is in the hall which I really don't believe he deserved to be in either.
Everybody thinks Lewis belongs in the Hall. Nobody's making a case for all those other guys that came and went on the Ravens being Hall Of Famers. By the time Rod Woodson was on the Ravens he had already transitioned over to safety.

Irvin got in by being the 2nd best receiver in the league during his prime playing on the last real dynasty and being a clutch postseason performer during those runs; he's still 2nd in postseason receiving yards to Jerry Rice.

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Old 02-02-2013, 08:31 PM   #247
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Everybody thinks Lewis belongs in the Hall. Nobody's making a case for all those other guys that came and went on the Ravens being Hall Of Famers. By the time Rod Woodson was on the Ravens he had already transitioned over to safety.

Irvin got in by being the 2nd best receiver in the league during his prime playing on the last real dynasty and being a clutch postseason performer during those runs; he's still 2nd in postseason receiving yards to Jerry Rice.
I think MANY people believe he doesn't belong in the hall look at today Michael Strahan didn't get into the hall what does that tell you ?

Irvin is 21 on the freaking yardage list and 45th in touchdowns THAT is not hall of fame caliber FACT he got in because he was a show-boat plain and simple.
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:58 PM   #248
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I think MANY people believe he doesn't belong in the hall look at today Michael Strahan didn't get into the hall what does that tell you ?

Irvin is 21 on the freaking yardage list and 45th in touchdowns THAT is not hall of fame caliber FACT he got in because he was a show-boat plain and simple.
Cite a few of those MANY besides you; people who are either members themselves or who have a vote.

It isn't the fantasy freaking football hall of fame; the game is a lot more than STAAAAAAATS! which is what makes it so great and people with common sense and a working pair of eyeballs can tell who was an all-time great and who wasn't.

Irvin played when the league was still a 50/50 run/pass league and defenders (especially defensive backs) weren't neutered yet. As long as you play relatively long enough, the Hall is hardly quantity over quality either. Irvin played in 156 games. Most of those guys ahead of him played in well over 200. How many of those guys that are ahead of Irvin are current players that had the advantage of playing most of their careers in the current souped up neutered defender NFL?
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:30 AM   #249
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Irvin played when the league was still a 50/50 run/pass league and defenders (especially defensive backs) weren't neutered yet. As long as you play relatively long enough, the Hall is hardly quantity over quality either. Irvin played in 156 games. Most of those guys ahead of him played in well over 200. How many of those guys that are ahead of Irvin are current players that had the advantage of playing most of their careers in the current souped up neutered defender NFL?
Then anybody with eyeballs should see that Michael Strahan,Zach Thomas,Tim Brown who played when Michael did and was by far better,Jerome Bettis,Will Shields,Sam Adams,Anenas Williams,Troy Vincent

Just Wideouts that played during his time? Tim Brown,Jimmy Smith,Keenan McCardell,Andre Reed,Rod Smith all have more yards some are superbowl winners and aren't 46th in touchdowns either.

That's the short list of eligible players that belong in the hall way before Michael Irvin.
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Old 02-03-2013, 12:29 PM   #250
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Then anybody with eyeballs should see that Michael Strahan,Zach Thomas,Tim Brown who played when Michael did and was by far better,Jerome Bettis,Will Shields,Sam Adams,Anenas Williams,Troy Vincent

Just Wideouts that played during his time? Tim Brown,Jimmy Smith,Keenan McCardell,Andre Reed,Rod Smith all have more yards some are superbowl winners and aren't 46th in touchdowns either.

That's the short list of eligible players that belong in the hall way before Michael Irvin.
Keenan McCardell & Troy Vincent belong in the hall over Irvin? And way before no less? You're out of your mind. Keenan McCardell in particular is your prototypical stat compiler. And this is coming from a Steelers fan who by nature can't stand the Cowboys.
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