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Old 10-19-2013, 04:31 PM   #11491
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This is a sort of blow-by-blow rundown of the films. I just sat through a (quite grueling) marathon of the Nightmare franchise with my - completely uninitiated - girlfriend. It's been a very long time since I've watched any of these films, and it was good to get back in the groove after such a long time.

TL;DR version: My series rankings -

1. 2
2. 1
3. 7
4. 3
5. 5
6. 6
7. 4
8. ANOES '10

Unreviewed: FvsJ

1. A Nightmare on Elm Street

My thoughts: Hardly anything that could be said about this film remains unspoken, so calling it a classic and reiterating my love for it wouldn't be appropriate. That said, I genuinely love the film. I'm a fan of high concept horror films: Videodrome is huge for me. I love the Phantasm movies, and the extreme surrealism of well-done giallo. And, while Elm Street is a bit schlockier than any of that, it's probably the closest mainstream American horror cinema could or will ever come to the metaphysical aspects of those movies.

One aspect of the film that I think none of its follow-ups really touched on sufficiently was Freddy's origin as a child murderer/molester. Granting that Freddy's Dead did hint at the notion, and the remake directly confirmed it, I still feel like the series might have benefited from fleshing out Krueger's crimes committed while he was alive. In a way, I suppose the original is to blame for this oversight, with Wes Craven declining to openly confirm Freddy's status as a molester and instead re-working Marge Thompson's dialogue into the more vague "child murderer", likely for fear of the moral backlash that was always brewing in the 1980s. All the same, I think that the implication actually works better than the overt confirmation in this film - providing we can read between the lines, it seems in retrospect that Marge was trying to protect her daughter from an even more atrocious truth.

2. Freddy's Revenge

I'm very aware this is a minority opinion, but I actually prefer this entry above any of the other entries in the series, even moreso than the much-vaunted first and seventh installments. I realize that Jack Sholder still maintains that he wasn't conscious of the homoerotic undertones - I very much doubt the "innocence" of the production in this regard - but they work very well.

I have always wished that the franchise hued more to this direction. The basic approach of the ANOES franchise towards nightmares is Freudian: Freddy is repression incarnate, Freud's "death drive" that serves as the unconscious censor of the Id. I've always thought that the second entry in the series exploited that nature much more effectively, tying it into Jesse's character more firmly than it was with any other character in any other Nightmare. Even if Jesse's homosexuality is only indirectly implied, it still works within the context of the film, and I feel this approach to characterization in the franchise should have been followed more closely in later entries.

One other, unrelated, notion has always suggested itself in this movie with regards to later sequels: in the original Nightmare, there was no suggestion that Freddy could actually cause anybody to do anything in their dreams. He slashed Tina up, and hung Rod, and... well, turned Johnny Depp into a blood fountain. But it's only with Freddy's Revenge that Krueger actually took over the body functions of one of his victims.

This is usually dismissed as a continuity error. But I'd argue it's been present in virtually every Nightmare sense. Let's list the ways:

1. Kristen's attempted suicide in the opening of Part III.
2. Spence's pogo-stick routine in Freddy's Dead.
3. The stoner character's possession in Freddy vs. Jason.

Even if possession was an innovation in Freddy's Revenge, I'd argue that it actually has been present to a greater or lesser degree in most every film since, even including New Nightmare.

3. The Dream Warriors

This, I think, is as relatively overrated as Freddy's Revenge is underrated. No doubt the franchise benefited by Craven's return to screenwriting duties, but I find some of the ideas in the script questionable.

My biggest problem with it is the method of Freddy's defeat. If fans have a problem with Freddy entering the real world in Freddy's Revenge, they should have an even worse problem with Freddy being laid to rest in the real world as a means to seal away his soul in The Dream Warriors. The former seems to me like a mere extension of his ability to manipulate the physical body of the dreamer in their sleep; the latter is much harder to reconcile, given the material nature of the physical world.

A more generic grudge I hold against the film is its introduction of Freddy-as-trickster. Yes, Part 4 is a much worse offender in this regard, but the first shot of Freddy dressed in a tuxedo already killed off a lot of the character's menace. Moreover, I feel that Kevin Yagher's Freddy design in the film is much less effective than in Part II: where the latter is slimy, almost gelatinous, and skeletal, The Dream Warriors begins the trend towards a drier, fuller-faced Freddy, though this wouldn't become a real problem until the next entry in the franchise.

That said, there are a lot of things to like about it. The characters are solid, and the acting is better than in either of its predecessors (though Heather Langenkamp is actually much more stilted in this film than either the original or New Nightmare). Moreover, some of the imagery, like the Freddy snake and the hall of reflections, really work on a psychoanalytic level. It's enough to make the third film as worth a watch as any other in the series.

4. The Dream Master

This is where I feel the series really fell off the tracks. Where each of the last three movies had value beyond their 'fun factors', this one really rides on its own energy and - nothing else.

There are really only a handful of plot points I enjoy in this one, and, to do it justice, I should start with the good: I appreciate the cyclic dream Freddy trapped Alice and Dan in towards the end of the film; it represents maybe the last time in the series that an actual element of dream logic is interjected into the films. For that matter, I thought Alice herself a very strong character, more sympathetic than any of the other Final Girls (or Guys) in the series.

Oh. And Dramarama. 'Nuff said.

That's... really about it. This is the first time in the franchise we see Freddy Krueger in broad daylight, and it absolutely destroys the character in a way it does not for a Jason or a Michael Myers: Freddy has a personality, and consequentially it's even more important to keep him in the shadows to keep that personality from overshadowing everything else in the film. The entire opening beach scene is ill-advised. The Krueger make-up is seriously degraded in this entry. And the sub-plot of dream powers being absorbed back into Alice is confusing and overly comic bookish.

5. The Dream Child

This could have redeemed the franchise. The first half of the movie has a lot going for it: a more overtly gothic visual design for the movie; a return to a crueler-natured characterization for Freddy; a (slightly) superior make-up design that incorporates more of the post-burn gruel that coated his face in the first few movies.

And then there is a comic book sequence, and from then out the movie gets steadily worse.

I'm fond of the basic idea of the story: a mother-child connection has a ton of potential in a movie centered around the concept of shared dreams. But it gets completely wasted by being tied into a retread of Freddy's mother's story from the third film - which, I should have mentioned, I was already uncomfortable with as another 'demystifying' element in that movie.

The screenwriter's strike is probably responsible for the idea going nowhere in the film, but I'm not certain it ever would have regardless. There was potential here for a subtext as strong as that in the second movie - this time of abortion. Naturally, it was wasted in favor of a soupy remake of The Dream Master.

6. Freddy's Dead

... Yeah, no.

(Actually, I genuinely liked a few things about it: the soundtrack is the strongest in the series, and I liked the idea of being given more of Freddy's background in his ostensibly final film. Even the idea of his daughter would have been a welcome addition, had the whole thing not so obviously been a gimmick more like the T2: 3D ride at Universal Studios than like a horror sequel.)

7. Wes Craven's New Nightmare

Another quite excellent entry from Wes Craven. That it was the grandfather of the self-referential, postmodern-lite variety of 90s horror can't really be held against it; at the time, it was a pretty groundbreaking idea, really comparable only to The Last Broadcast, Ghost Watch, and a handful of other postmodern horror films.

ANOES '10

Utter dreck.

The only saving grace for this movie was how it dealt with the idea of Freddy's backstory as a child molester. I'm one of the few who didn't mind its manipulative attempt into invoking sympathy for Freddy, but I feel it actually copped out and ran away in cowardice from its own premise by making Freddy ultimately guilty.

How much braver would the film have been if Freddy had genuinely been innocent of what he'd been murdered for? That would have given the movie a much greater depth, by forcing us to broaden our perspective on his characterization and giving him a pathos he otherwise lacks. Instead, the movie lacks the courage of its convictions, turning what could have been a unique subtextual exploration of guilt and innocence - so often the themes of repression-dreams - into a lame villainous attempt at... what? Tricking Nancy? Why? What's the point?

The 'micronaps' subplot was astonishingly ignorant and insulting, also.

Freddy's make-up was lame. The CGI was atrocious. The unwillingness of the film to even attempt to explore a more surreal dreamscape based in the archaeology of nightmares makes it the opposite of the original film: intellectually dead.
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Old 10-19-2013, 05:58 PM   #11492
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One other quick note about Freddy's Revenge: it avoids some of the cliches of the other films.

Every other ANOES movie has a scene set in a medical facility of some kind:

1. The dream clinic in the first film
3. Westin Hills
4. The school nurse's office
5. Westin Hills, the hospital Alice is held in after Dan's death
6. The shelter as a kind-of medical facility
7. The hospital
FvsJ: Westin Hills

Even by avoiding a minor reoccurring cliche like that, the second film sets itself apart from the others.
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Old 10-19-2013, 07:39 PM   #11493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Übermensch View Post
This is a sort of blow-by-blow rundown of the films. I just sat through a (quite grueling) marathon of the Nightmare franchise with my - completely uninitiated - girlfriend. It's been a very long time since I've watched any of these films, and it was good to get back in the groove after such a long time.

TL;DR version: My series rankings -

1. 2
2. 1
3. 7
4. 3
5. 5
6. 6
7. 4
8. ANOES '10

Unreviewed: FvsJ

1. A Nightmare on Elm Street

My thoughts: Hardly anything that could be said about this film remains unspoken, so calling it a classic and reiterating my love for it wouldn't be appropriate. That said, I genuinely love the film. I'm a fan of high concept horror films: Videodrome is huge for me. I love the Phantasm movies, and the extreme surrealism of well-done giallo. And, while Elm Street is a bit schlockier than any of that, it's probably the closest mainstream American horror cinema could or will ever come to the metaphysical aspects of those movies.

One aspect of the film that I think none of its follow-ups really touched on sufficiently was Freddy's origin as a child murderer/molester. Granting that Freddy's Dead did hint at the notion, and the remake directly confirmed it, I still feel like the series might have benefited from fleshing out Krueger's crimes committed while he was alive. In a way, I suppose the original is to blame for this oversight, with Wes Craven declining to openly confirm Freddy's status as a molester and instead re-working Marge Thompson's dialogue into the more vague "child murderer", likely for fear of the moral backlash that was always brewing in the 1980s. All the same, I think that the implication actually works better than the overt confirmation in this film - providing we can read between the lines, it seems in retrospect that Marge was trying to protect her daughter from an even more atrocious truth.

2. Freddy's Revenge

I'm very aware this is a minority opinion, but I actually prefer this entry above any of the other entries in the series, even moreso than the much-vaunted first and seventh installments. I realize that Jack Sholder still maintains that he wasn't conscious of the homoerotic undertones - I very much doubt the "innocence" of the production in this regard - but they work very well.

I have always wished that the franchise hued more to this direction. The basic approach of the ANOES franchise towards nightmares is Freudian: Freddy is repression incarnate, Freud's "death drive" that serves as the unconscious censor of the Id. I've always thought that the second entry in the series exploited that nature much more effectively, tying it into Jesse's character more firmly than it was with any other character in any other Nightmare. Even if Jesse's homosexuality is only indirectly implied, it still works within the context of the film, and I feel this approach to characterization in the franchise should have been followed more closely in later entries.

One other, unrelated, notion has always suggested itself in this movie with regards to later sequels: in the original Nightmare, there was no suggestion that Freddy could actually cause anybody to do anything in their dreams. He slashed Tina up, and hung Rod, and... well, turned Johnny Depp into a blood fountain. But it's only with Freddy's Revenge that Krueger actually took over the body functions of one of his victims.

This is usually dismissed as a continuity error. But I'd argue it's been present in virtually every Nightmare sense. Let's list the ways:

1. Kristen's attempted suicide in the opening of Part III.
2. Spence's pogo-stick routine in Freddy's Dead.
3. The stoner character's possession in Freddy vs. Jason.

Even if possession was an innovation in Freddy's Revenge, I'd argue that it actually has been present to a greater or lesser degree in most every film since, even including New Nightmare.

3. The Dream Warriors

This, I think, is as relatively overrated as Freddy's Revenge is underrated. No doubt the franchise benefited by Craven's return to screenwriting duties, but I find some of the ideas in the script questionable.

My biggest problem with it is the method of Freddy's defeat. If fans have a problem with Freddy entering the real world in Freddy's Revenge, they should have an even worse problem with Freddy being laid to rest in the real world as a means to seal away his soul in The Dream Warriors. The former seems to me like a mere extension of his ability to manipulate the physical body of the dreamer in their sleep; the latter is much harder to reconcile, given the material nature of the physical world.

A more generic grudge I hold against the film is its introduction of Freddy-as-trickster. Yes, Part 4 is a much worse offender in this regard, but the first shot of Freddy dressed in a tuxedo already killed off a lot of the character's menace. Moreover, I feel that Kevin Yagher's Freddy design in the film is much less effective than in Part II: where the latter is slimy, almost gelatinous, and skeletal, The Dream Warriors begins the trend towards a drier, fuller-faced Freddy, though this wouldn't become a real problem until the next entry in the franchise.

That said, there are a lot of things to like about it. The characters are solid, and the acting is better than in either of its predecessors (though Heather Langenkamp is actually much more stilted in this film than either the original or New Nightmare). Moreover, some of the imagery, like the Freddy snake and the hall of reflections, really work on a psychoanalytic level. It's enough to make the third film as worth a watch as any other in the series.

4. The Dream Master

This is where I feel the series really fell off the tracks. Where each of the last three movies had value beyond their 'fun factors', this one really rides on its own energy and - nothing else.

There are really only a handful of plot points I enjoy in this one, and, to do it justice, I should start with the good: I appreciate the cyclic dream Freddy trapped Alice and Dan in towards the end of the film; it represents maybe the last time in the series that an actual element of dream logic is interjected into the films. For that matter, I thought Alice herself a very strong character, more sympathetic than any of the other Final Girls (or Guys) in the series.

Oh. And Dramarama. 'Nuff said.

That's... really about it. This is the first time in the franchise we see Freddy Krueger in broad daylight, and it absolutely destroys the character in a way it does not for a Jason or a Michael Myers: Freddy has a personality, and consequentially it's even more important to keep him in the shadows to keep that personality from overshadowing everything else in the film. The entire opening beach scene is ill-advised. The Krueger make-up is seriously degraded in this entry. And the sub-plot of dream powers being absorbed back into Alice is confusing and overly comic bookish.

5. The Dream Child

This could have redeemed the franchise. The first half of the movie has a lot going for it: a more overtly gothic visual design for the movie; a return to a crueler-natured characterization for Freddy; a (slightly) superior make-up design that incorporates more of the post-burn gruel that coated his face in the first few movies.

And then there is a comic book sequence, and from then out the movie gets steadily worse.

I'm fond of the basic idea of the story: a mother-child connection has a ton of potential in a movie centered around the concept of shared dreams. But it gets completely wasted by being tied into a retread of Freddy's mother's story from the third film - which, I should have mentioned, I was already uncomfortable with as another 'demystifying' element in that movie.

The screenwriter's strike is probably responsible for the idea going nowhere in the film, but I'm not certain it ever would have regardless. There was potential here for a subtext as strong as that in the second movie - this time of abortion. Naturally, it was wasted in favor of a soupy remake of The Dream Master.

6. Freddy's Dead

... Yeah, no.

(Actually, I genuinely liked a few things about it: the soundtrack is the strongest in the series, and I liked the idea of being given more of Freddy's background in his ostensibly final film. Even the idea of his daughter would have been a welcome addition, had the whole thing not so obviously been a gimmick more like the T2: 3D ride at Universal Studios than like a horror sequel.)

7. Wes Craven's New Nightmare

Another quite excellent entry from Wes Craven. That it was the grandfather of the self-referential, postmodern-lite variety of 90s horror can't really be held against it; at the time, it was a pretty groundbreaking idea, really comparable only to The Last Broadcast, Ghost Watch, and a handful of other postmodern horror films.

ANOES '10

Utter dreck.

The only saving grace for this movie was how it dealt with the idea of Freddy's backstory as a child molester. I'm one of the few who didn't mind its manipulative attempt into invoking sympathy for Freddy, but I feel it actually copped out and ran away in cowardice from its own premise by making Freddy ultimately guilty.

How much braver would the film have been if Freddy had genuinely been innocent of what he'd been murdered for? That would have given the movie a much greater depth, by forcing us to broaden our perspective on his characterization and giving him a pathos he otherwise lacks. Instead, the movie lacks the courage of its convictions, turning what could have been a unique subtextual exploration of guilt and innocence - so often the themes of repression-dreams - into a lame villainous attempt at... what? Tricking Nancy? Why? What's the point?

The 'micronaps' subplot was astonishingly ignorant and insulting, also.

Freddy's make-up was lame. The CGI was atrocious. The unwillingness of the film to even attempt to explore a more surreal dreamscape based in the archaeology of nightmares makes it the opposite of the original film: intellectually dead.
Excellent post and run down on each film.

I agree with pretty much all of this, especially Part 2. Such an underrated installment, but I must confess that I love Part 4.
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Old 10-19-2013, 08:37 PM   #11494
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Lovely run down there. And I completely agree with just about all of it. The original is my favourite though.

I like Part 4 as well though, tell me, have you seen Never Sleep Again? They fully talk about each film.

And yes, Jack does deny knowing about the guy undertones of part two; one of the screen writers though fully admits and says it was all completely intentional.

So I suppose you can take it either way. Part 2's segment is easily the most interesting; followed probably by 5's. That writer strike butchered that second half.
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Old 10-19-2013, 09:01 PM   #11495
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Watching everyone talk about the part 2's gayness in Never Sleep Again is hilarious. They all knew what they were doing, they just won't come out and admit it.
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Old 10-19-2013, 09:21 PM   #11496
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Good reviews, although I disagree with a lot of that.

I love Part 4 so much
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Old 10-27-2013, 05:12 PM   #11497
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I love part 4, but there's just too much comedy in it. Same with 5 & 6. For instance, part five had a great concept with Freddy choosing to target an unborn baby but there was so much comedy layered around it that you couldn't take it seriously despite having a good base of an idea.

Parts one, two, three, & seven are forever my all time favorite NOES movies.
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Old 10-27-2013, 05:15 PM   #11498
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To its credit, The Dream Child managed to reign in the comedy until the second half, and what comedy there was did seem a great deal more mean-spirited than in The Dream Master (Greta's death in particular is unpleasant, but so is Dan's when you realize later in the film that Freddy knows he's a father-to-be and has no problem at all killing him anyway). It's the comic book scene in particular that sends the quality of the film plummeting, not an across-the-board tonal problem.

I rewatched Freddy's Dead alone today, and I actually had a good time doing it once I remembered just what I was viewing. There's a lot about it that could've been very good - I don't object to the idea of Freddy's daughter, and I thought the flashbacks to her interaction with Freddy as a girl was easily the strongest part of the movie. There were a few really solid ideas in there, but they were so mucked up by the production that they can't really shine through all the lame Wizard of Oz jokes and Nintendo product placement.
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Old 10-27-2013, 05:20 PM   #11499
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Freddy's Dead does have some great stuff. It's just the overall tone is completely missplaced. If it was done a lot darker it would have been damn decent, but it comes off like Looney Tunes.

I love the concept that the town has accepted whats going on, and all the parents are in some kind of suppressed depression, with the entire towns children population gone. I mean, imagine if that was done but in a hell of a lot less light sided. That would make for one creepy ass setting.

ifs/buts/maybes.
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Old 10-27-2013, 05:25 PM   #11500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oxley View Post
Freddy's Dead does have some great stuff. It's just the overall tone is completely missplaced. If it was done a lot darker it would have been damn decent, but it comes off like Looney Tunes.

I love the concept that the town has accepted whats going on, and all the parents are in some kind of suppressed depression, with the entire towns children population gone. I mean, imagine if that was done but in a hell of a lot less light sided. That would make for one creepy ass setting.

ifs/buts/maybes.
I agree. That's why I can't hate Freddy's Dead the way I do The Dream Master. Freddy's Dead had ideas that were executed terribly; The Dream Master had no ideas at all but was executed moderately better.

I'd love to see a movie that dealt with Springwood coming to terms with Freddy. One of the things I appreciate about Freddy vs. Jason is that its interpretation of Springwood seems a logical development from the portrayal of the city in Freddy's Dead - the entire town would only have engaged in such a conspiracy to suppress Freddy if, at some point, he'd pushed them to the edge like in the earlier film.
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