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Old 12-17-2013, 03:59 PM   #861
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Originally Posted by Sea Hag View Post
Who else but a fanboy (with a galadriel av no less) would say something so irrationally annoying as telling another person how they should watch a film & what they should focus on? Once someone says such a thing I'm going to call a spade a spade everytime. I think it's more telling of one being "lost of arguments" by said person coming back with short responses capped off by a lame gif.

It's not so much about the LOTR being better films as much as it is "The Hobbit" trying to emulate LOTR more than it should which subsequently works against this new trilogy. For LOTR it was crucial to the films success for them to successfuly fully flesh out the three storylines of the Fellowship as well as Rohan's part in the grand scheme of things. (in particular theoden) It's a grander tale that calls for such attention to be paid to multiple storylines. "The Hobbit" is a different, more intimate story and to so excessively stretch it out does more a disservice to it than anything else. It's not a coincidence that the best parts came straight from the book. (namely mirkwood & bilbo's encounter with smaug) But hey; there is money to be made.

I've read all four books a few times over but I'm not a purist. I understood why Jackson excluded Tom Bombadil from Fellowship, I understood why he gave a resolution to Saruman at Isengard & I even understood the inclusion of Arwen for she represented a dying race & her arc was pertinent to the endgame of the trilogy & one of its main characters.

And yeah; I'm sure if you divided up each character's amount of screentime that Bilbo would have the most but he's still minimized more than he should be. How? For one; Tauriel & Legolas are just devices that are there to deliver on base audience appeal. One character provides the obligatory hollow romance angle which maybe worked for you. If so then I'm happy for you. I actually said out-loud why am I having to watch this when the whole needless Fili in mortal danger subplot was going down. The other is there to just wreck shop & give people a nostalgic feeling. Apparently Legolas was "dope" in this so Jackson was clearly onto something. To me they're simply tacked on fodder.

Should've been two films.

You are one hell of a nitpicker, don't you? I did get your issues the first time, yet you still pull the futile comparison with the LOTR like a crybaby again. I don't care for it all, didn't I say that already?
You are one of the few, who are unable to think/reflect things outside the box (aside from pulling useless retrospects to the LOTR), or better, one last hint: there is a first part before the second Hobbit. Now put 1 and 1 together. Does it spark right now? I bet it doesn't.
Read my initial review, you might find a few neutral hints.
But ok, here we go - again:


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Originally Posted by The Revelator View Post
I already understand your opinion on the added material, no need to go off and explain it more. None of it worked for you. You think it was tacked on, pointless, boring, and pure fan service that added nothing to the movie.

How many ways can I tell you that I disagree? You can't tell me that I'm wrong for thinking it worked. Jackson blended material from the appendicies, the Hobbit, and his own creativity into one extremely exciting, gorgeous, and entertaining film. Every added bit seemed vital (including the romance that bored you). If they're going to bring back old characters and introduce things that weren't necessarily in the book, they had at least better be interesting... and they were. I don't think any of it was there for drawing out sake or pure fan service. I'll say it again, I thought it worked beautifully and I don't want to see it any other way.

Or you can just tell me I'm a blinded sheep who will love anything because I'm a fanboy. That's fine too, but that isn't a discussion that is going to get you or me anywhere.



Again, I think the added material is great and adds a lot to the story. The acting alone makes these prequel series infinitely better than Lucas' abortions.
You spared me time and nerves with this response.
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Old 12-17-2013, 05:08 PM   #862
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Damn; you got me!

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You are one hell of a nitpicker, don't you?
I am one hell of a nitpicker don't I?

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I did get your issues the first time, yet you still pull the futile comparison with the LOTR like a crybaby again. I don't care for it all, didn't I say that already?
Wow; you totally missed the point of the comparison.

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Originally Posted by Porn N Gore View Post
Looking back, I was always under the impression that this was Bilbo's story and how he found the ring and helped the dwarfs kill a dragon. Not an infomercial for the LOTR.

I think my problem with these movies is that they reek of too much CG/Lucas taint to them. That and they should of just been two movies, all the made up stuff, or characters that don't belong are just fluff.

I think it hurts the movie/pads it unnecessarily.
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It's not so much about the LOTR being better films as much as it is "The Hobbit" trying to emulate LOTR more than it should which subsequently works against this new trilogy.
For the third time; the comparison's pertinent not because of one being better than the other so much as Jackson emulating his approach with LOTR to the detriment of this when a more restrained approach was called for.


Quote:
You are one of the few, who are unable to think/reflect things outside the box (aside from pulling useless retrospects to the LOTR), or better, one last hint: there is a first part before the second Hobbit. Now put 1 and 1 together. Does it spark right now? I bet it doesn't.
I guess you skipped what I said on that matter already:

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Originally Posted by Sea Hag View Post
I see what you're saying and it probably will play-out better as one whole viewing experience but for me the damage has been done. The cliffhanger ending didn't leave me wanting more or anything. I now feel both indifference & annoyance to the whole thing. Should've been two films.

I'm the one that can't think outside of the box yet you're so defensive about your precious movie you can't even retain what people are saying. I was openly mocked on this site for my love of "Batman Begins" & "TDK". But when I saw "TDKR" I was able to admit and point out how much it sucked.

It's clear as day you were going to lap up whatever shit Jackson was going to serve you. And while I may not agree with him at least Revelator comes across as level-headed instead of some whiny fanboy throwing a fit on the internet.


Quote:
Read my initial review, you might find a few neutral hints.
Oh I did. To sum it up there was no real characterization done, it seemed like it moved to one set-piece after another and it looked kinda like a video game but teh action wuz da bombs. Hail Smaug!

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You spared me time and nerves with this response.
I'm sure you could've drummed up some more stinging gifs.
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Old 12-17-2013, 07:16 PM   #863
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But when I saw "TDKR" I was able to admit and point out how much it sucked.
Hey, hey, hey, we're talking about the Hobbit here. Let's leave the Dark Knight Rises out of this
I love the Dark Knight Rises btw lol
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Old 12-17-2013, 11:07 PM   #864
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The "tacked on" love interest took up about 45 seconds of screen time. Not sure why this is an issue.

It's not bloated, and it's certainly not a mess. I suggest you go watch the Star Wars prequels again to see what a real mess looks like.
I through Star Wars in the mix because of both Jackson and Lucas' CG crutch. Which I dont understand, jackson made great use of practical sets and models that made them feel real. Im just sick of watching the blogs and seeing nothing but green screen. It just reaks of Lucas-like lazy filmmaking.

Both through in stupid shit that did not need to be in the movies. TO me it feels like a bloated, money grab for the three movies. Try to squeeze some of the LOTR magic into these CG kid movies.
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Old 12-17-2013, 11:21 PM   #865
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Originally Posted by Porn N Gore View Post
I through Star Wars in the mix because of both Jackson and Lucas' CG crutch. Which I dont understand, jackson made great use of practical sets and models that made them feel real. Im just sick of watching the blogs and seeing nothing but green screen. It just reaks of Lucas-like lazy filmmaking.

Both through in stupid shit that did not need to be in the movies. TO me it feels like a bloated, money grab for the three movies. Try to squeeze some of the LOTR magic into these CG kid movies.


There's a reason CGI is so heavily relied upon in The Hobbit. While LOTR is a more grounded straight up medieval-esque fantasy play The Hobbit was always a more of a spectacle, in scale & as an actual fantasy tale. I mean seriously, HOW IN THE WORLD could they have done the barrel, Smaug, werewolf monster (Don't know what it is), and spider sequences without bucket loads of CGI? It would be absolutely impossible.

Kind of funny how you say Jackson has a CG crutch when he's only used it to extreme amounts in two, maybe three movies of his.
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Old 12-18-2013, 05:22 AM   #866
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Originally Posted by Sea Hag View Post
I'm the one that can't think outside of the box yet you're so defensive about your precious movie you can't even retain what people are saying. I was openly mocked on this site for my love of "Batman Begins" & "TDK". But when I saw "TDKR" I was able to admit and point out how much it sucked.
I am stoked. And point is exactly what? That the internet beatdown enlightened you?
Guess what, I was able to admit that the first Hobbit didn't meet my high expectations too, though it was a Middle Earth themed film, even helmed by PJ. No one had a problem with it, once I learned to avoid the comparison to the LOTR, hence getting a better evaluation from another perspective. Sometimes even fanboys are able to get things right.
The new film provided everything I have missed from the first, so, it is all good. End of story (I bet not).

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It's clear as day you were going to lap up whatever shit Jackson was going to serve you. And while I may not agree with him at least Revelator comes across as level-headed instead of some whiny fanboy throwing a fit on the internet.
Now you are pathetic. From the moment you have concocted the fanboy mockery in your upper storey, this whole discussion became futile.
Rev provided everything I stand behind as well, so I thankfully hadn't to respond to your insistend bigotry. You can be thankful that he has a stronger thread of patience than me.
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Or you can just tell me I'm a blinded sheep who will love anything because I'm a fanboy. That's fine too, but that isn't a discussion that is going to get you or me anywhere.
He has indeed provided an answer for everything.
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Old 12-18-2013, 06:04 AM   #867
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We're going to have to agree to disagree folks... We aren't getting anywhere.
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Old 12-18-2013, 09:18 AM   #868
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Originally Posted by Porn N Gore View Post
I through Star Wars in the mix because of both Jackson and Lucas' CG crutch. Which I dont understand, jackson made great use of practical sets and models that made them feel real. Im just sick of watching the blogs and seeing nothing but green screen. It just reaks of Lucas-like lazy filmmaking.
Jackson doesn't use CGI as a crutch, and to be fair, neither did Lucas. Both Star Wars and The LOTR trilogy/Hobbit, are films that absolutely require fuck tons of CGI. The Star Wars prquels sucked because, well, they sucked. On every level. It's not like practical effects would've saved those movies, and made the story, casting, acting, etc, any better. Also, if you've ever seen the LOTR special features, you'd have seen nothing but green screens as well. This isn't something Jackson started to do with The Hobbit. If anything, the LOTR trilogy was praised for it's advancements made in CGI technology.

Where I do sort of question Jackson's use of it, is with individual characters that could've been pulled off with an actor in costume. I don't see why every orc, goblin, etc, has to be a CGI creation. That's about the only area in The Hobbit films where I do scratch my head a bit, considering how great the orcs, and Uru-kai(I think that's what they were called) looked in LOTR with actors in costume and makeup. That's about it though. I could nitpick how bad the troll scene looked in The Hobbit, but you're not going to pull that scene off without the trolls being CGI characters, so it is what it is.
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Old 12-18-2013, 09:57 AM   #869
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Jackson doesn't use CGI as a crutch, and to be fair, neither did Lucas. Both Star Wars and The LOTR trilogy/Hobbit, are films that absolutely require fuck tons of CGI. The Star Wars prquels sucked because, well, they sucked. On every level. It's not like practical effects would've saved those movies, and made the story, casting, acting, etc, any better. Also, if you've ever seen the LOTR special features, you'd have seen nothing but green screens as well. This isn't something Jackson started to do with The Hobbit. If anything, the LOTR trilogy was praised for it's advancements made in CGI technology.

Where I do sort of question Jackson's use of it, is with individual characters that could've been pulled off with an actor in costume. I don't see why every orc, goblin, etc, has to be a CGI creation. That's about the only area in The Hobbit films where I do scratch my head a bit, considering how great the orcs, and Uru-kai(I think that's what they were called) looked in LOTR with actors in costume and makeup. That's about it though. I could nitpick how bad the troll scene looked in The Hobbit, but you're not going to pull that scene off without the trolls being CGI characters, so it is what it is.
Agrees entirely.


Have you seen Desolatiom of Smaug? I felt that more of the orcs were practical this time around. Not that there isn't a ton of CGI but I feel that there was more balance in this film than the first for at least the orcs.

Edit

I also agree that too much cgi is used for smaller characters that is puzzling but it's one of those things that didn't especially bother me about this or the first film. The practical Uru-Kai are superior to most of the cgi creations in this movie.
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Old 12-18-2013, 10:18 AM   #870
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Have you seen Desolatiom of Smaug? I felt that more of the orcs were practical this time around. Not that there isn't a ton of CGI but I feel that there was more balance in this film than the first for at least the orcs.
Not yet. I've seen the clip of the elf guy killing the captured orc, and the orc did look a bit more natural than the ones in the first movie. That's all I can really comment on.

I really don't like how the main orc leader looks though. He not only looks like a cartoon character, but I find making him entirely CGI really robs the potential of a great performance by an actor. He's a good villain that an actor could really sink their teeth into. That's pretty much my complaint in a nutshell about the over abundance of CGI characters.
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